Discourse 47 - Do the crimes of the Nazis have their origin in the Christian faith?




Do the crimes of the Nazis have their origin in the Christian faith? / Commentary,anonymous 00, 2002-08-04

Is it possible to become a Jew, or do you have to be born one? / Commentary,anonymous 01, 2003-01-05


(Texts enclosed in a black frame are quoted from visitors to the site or other authors.)

(Do the crimes of the Nazis have their origin in the Christian faith? / Commentary anonymous 00, 2002-08-04)

ladies and gentlemen, my name is anonymous and i have been living for some five months in israel in order to complete my CONVERSION TO THE JEWISH FAITH. i come from a catholic-moslem family, and was brought up as a christian. my wish to become a jew became a certainty five years ago. i have learned ancient greek and have a good understanding of the so-called >>new<< testament. i have come to see more and more that the christian faith has very little indeed in common.

besides this i came to see that TO ME the trinity is patently a relic of heathendom! i have read in the sermon of the mount that so long as heaven and earth last the law will remain valid!!! do you celebrate yom kippur or wear the zizit, as expressly commanded?

g-d has concluded an EVERLASTING covenant with us and it is some presumption on your part to think you are the people of g-d when it was christians who INCINERATED jews in the crematoria!!!! christianity has brought endless suffering on the jews! the church’s prejudice against the jews issued in antisemitism and this came to a climax in the shoah. it hurts me and it is injurious to read statements illustrating your arrogant attitude. there are rabbinical commentaries that show on the basis of the torah item by item that jesus was not the messiah!!!

the jewish religion has hardly anything in common with the christian one! anyone who knows anything at all about judaism is aware of this. in yad vashem there is a Protestant professor of theology who also became a jewish convert and you just cant imagine how many christians are converting to judaism. it takes quite a bit more to become a jew than it does to become a christian. it isn’t enough just to say “i love jesus” the way you do.

on the contrary, you have to learn hebrew and study holy scripture and the mitzvot thoroughly. why are you so arrogant? i respect your faith and judaism does not expect of anyone that he should become a jew in order to find SALVATION. the better i have come to know the jewish faith the more i have become conscious of HOW BIGOTED AND WHAT A BLINDFOLD I HAD OVER MY EYES WHILE I WAS STILL A CHRISTIAN!!! i had hardly any idea at all of the so-called old testament.

sorry, my friends, you are not the chosen people. i am sorry for you and regret that you are unable to understand us. what you say is injurious and insulting. i cannot avoid thinking constantly of everything for which CHRISTIANITY HAS BEEN RESPONSIBLE!!!! hatred of the jews was a reality even in the time of isaac, its not an invention by christianity. you have just carried this hatred onward over the centuries.

yes, there are a lot of intelligent christians converting to judaism, while i must say i have found that most jews who convert to christianity do not know a fraction as much about christianity as we do about judaism!!! here in israel christians go to the poorest of the poor of the jews and offer them money. they put on a >>pseudo-jewish<< air, by saying >>jeschu<< instead of >>jesus<<. any jew who knows the torah can easily refute their arguments, but what about a russian immigrant who can’t even read hebrew...? that is really a bit cheap... i respect the christian faith so long as it respects others. you think you have got a monopoly on the truth and don’t recognize that there is more between heaven and earth than the dogmas of your faith, which are insulting, injurious and (if you don’t mind my saying so) pretty ridiculous..

anonymous 



I am sorry if the observations at Immanuel.at have struck you as being “insulting, injurious and pretty ridiculous”.

Seeing that this very website is concerned that the Jews should also be recognized as the people of God, and has itself moreover - in contradiction of your claim - frequently rebuked this attitude you object to in certain Evangelical groups, I would like here to engage with some of your remarks in order to throw a bit more light on the background to the situation.

You write:

“sorry, my friends, you are not the chosen people. i am sorry for you and regret that you are unable to understand us. what you say is injurious and insulting.”


Now, what I say - or write - is on the following lines, for instance:

“But there are still groups of believing Christians today who deny that the people of Israel can have any hope of salvation at all. The reason they give for this is Israel’s rejection of its Messiah, and their having handed him over to the Romans to be crucified. We find that similar ideas were current in the Crusades of the Middle Ages.

And yet all these people are overlooking one important detail. The Lord did not die because the Jews handed him over to the Romans. He also, and most importantly, let himself be crucified because it was not possible to find any other atonement, or ‘ransom’, for the sins of the world.

And so he died for all of us - and that for the reason that we are all sinners and all in need of God’s forgiveness and so the sacrifice of Christ. And if now someone comes along and feels obliged to exclude the Jews from God’s plan of salvation because they crucified their Messiah, he has plainly not yet grasped the fact that it is all of us, including without any doubt himself, who through our sins caused the death of the Lord on the cross. And in the last resort these people are thereby condemning themselves. For if they think that those who are guilty of the death of Christ are not entitled to salvation, then they too can have no entitlement to salvation.”

(See also Chapter 063: “The Return of the Lord.“)


Or in another passage:

“These ‘other sheep’ (Jn 10,14-16) are of course to be understood as the heathen (the nations). That is to say, those of the heathen who are willing to convert to faith in Christ. And this point has been emphasized by Christian commentators on repeated occasions.

(See also Discourse 72: “Table: The linguistic families of the nations.“)


But there is more to be inferred from this statement. When the Lord speaks here of ‘other’ sheep ‘which are not of this fold’, this implies of course that there are sheep in the fold already: namely the original sheep, the ones that are ‘of this fold’. And this very first, original ‘flock’ that has dwelt in this fold for a long time already obviously consists of the Israelites. As Christians, we must not overlook this fact: not we, but Israel was the first people of God!“

And also:

“The view that the congregation is now the new people of God, and that Israel has therefore lost its importance in salvific history, evidences just as much arrogance as does the rejection of Christianity by the Orthodox Israelites.”

(See also Discourse 38: “What awaits Christians and Jews on the Second Coming of the Lord?”)


Do you really find these statements injurious and insulting to the Jews?

On the other hand, you yourself become quite injurious and insulting when you accuse the whole of Christianity of being responsible for hatred of the Jews:

“hatred of the jews was a reality even in the time of isaac, it’s not an invention of christianitys. you have just carried this hatred onward over the centuries.”

You then write:

“the church’s prejudice against the jews issued in antisemitism and this came to a climax in the shoah. it hurts me and it is injurious to read statements illustrating your arrogant attitude.”


I have to ask whether you have actually read anything on this website. You want to link the crimes of the Third Reich with my supposedly “arrogant attitude”? You say that it “hurts you”? How old are you actually? Did you live through the Holocaust? It seems unlikely, seeing that you only just converted to Judaism recently. So how come you make such a song and dance about the pain and suffering of those real Jews who lost children and brothers and sisters in the concentration camps when - as the child of a later era and a non-Jew - you cannot have had the least bit of direct experience of these things?

In the following quotation you link the crimes of the Nazis to Christianity, and refer to the concentration camps, which you can only know about through hearsay:

“it is some presumption that you think you are the people of g-d after it was christians who INCINERATED jews in the crematoria.”


I have given evidence, not once but many times in my writings, of my belief that the Jews too are the “people of God”:

“Here too we are told about a ‘wife’, she too is led by God into the wilderness and here too the reference is to the people of God who are of Israel, who will call their God ‘My husband’ and with whom the Lord plans to betroth himself for all eternity (Hos 2,16.18.21).“

(See also Excursus 10: “The woman in heaven.“)


By the way, what would be your reaction if someone were to connect the attacks on the Palestinians in Israel - whether they are deliberately planned, like the one a few days ago, where not just an Al Fatah leader but thirteen innocent people as well, including nine children, were killed, or whether it is just a case of those civilians who have lost their lives in one of the many incursions of the Israeli military into the Palestinian refugee camps - what would you think if someone tried to link these murders to the Jewish faith, and make it responsible for such atrocities?

And then finally you say:

“i respect the christian faith as long as it respects others”


but proceed to show your “respect” for the Christian faith by attributing to it heathen practices, false doctrine (Jesus was not the Christ), a total lack of standards in terms of faith (it isn’t enough just to say “i love jesus”) and finally antisemitism. You even go so far as to make this Christian faith responsible for the crimes of the Nazis as well.

Please don’t take it amiss, but I have the impression that you are exceedingly young and have not yet reached a point where you are able to have an overview of the true state of affairs on both sides - both from the Christian and from the Jewish point of view.

In conclusion I would like to reply to the following statement of yours:

“i am sorry for you and regret that you are not able to understand us”


In all sincerity I have to tell you that I am sorry for you as well. I do not know what you understand about Judaism, but you do not appear to have fully understood Christianity by any means. Since Jesus Christ, the Son of God, Our Lord and your Messiah, came into the world and died for the sins of this world on the cross, all the liturgical ceremonies of the Mosaic faith are unable to free you from your sins. Only the acceptance of the redeeming sacrifice of the Son of God can be valid and effective in the eyes of your God and ours. That which in Judaism is sought after through striving for fulfillment of the Law, and which, by the will of God, is nonetheless not to be found - this is what we have in Christianity, through the grace of God and the acceptance of the sacrifice of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

With your conversion to the Jewish faith you have thus rejected this offer of grace coming from the Almighty, and must now, for good or ill, follow the path of the Jews - which will continue until the last of the heathen who are destined to come to believe in Jesus Christ has accepted the Christian faith.

Then, and only then, will God the Lord again raise up the house of David and all those promises will fall to the lot of the people of God who are of Israel that God has planned for them since the beginning of the world. But at that time it is very likely that neither of us will any longer be alive; and your choice of the wrong path is not one that can be retracted. This is because while you can become a Christian, you have to have been born a Jew to be a Jew.



(Texts enclosed in a black frame are quoted from visitors to the site or other authors.)

(Is it possible to become a Jew, or do you have to be born one? / Commentary anonymous 01, 2003-01-05)

(To give the ensuing discussion at least some resemblance to a dialog, the comments of the visitor to the website are given in boxes, with the answer immediately following.)

just to make one quick point about my conversion: it is indeed possible to >>become<< a jew.

anonymous


You can acquire Israeli nationality, certainly.


your argument referring to the tribes of israel is not correct, since after all jethro was converted when the twelve tribes of israel were already in existence. ruth too became a jew. so did the chaplain of ludwig the pious (bodo). as did countless other famous people. surely you must have heard of maimonides? well, a convert once wrote asking him whether he could pray to g-d calling him the >>g-d of avraham, itzhak and yaakov<<. maimonides gave him a straight yes to this, as a conversion is similar to a new birth.


Conversion to faith in Jesus Christ, a Jew and the Son of God, is also similar to a new birth, but that does not mean that the convert becomes a Jew.


a rabbinical court examines the candidate thoroughly as part of the conversion process, and expects to find not just a solid foundation of knowledge (which is why i had to learn hebrew and the torah. as a result of which i know the bible a bit better than the people you describe.


I sincerely congratulate you on that!


i belong to the orthodox branch of judaism, which means that my judaism is recognized by ALL shades of opinion.


Here in Vienna I know the Chief Rabbi of the Orthodox Jewish community, M. A. Friedmann, and it must be said that he is currently engaged in a dispute with Chief Rabbi Paul Chaim Eisenberg, who together with Ariel Muzikant, the President of the Jewish Community of Vienna, has spoken out against Friedmann.


(See also Discourse 46: “Statement by Chief Rabbi M. A. Friedmann, Vienna.“)


yes, you can become a jew. but it isnt easy. and according to the talmud you have to have a >>jewish soul<<. the talmud also says that the torah (judaism is open to everyone). that is the reason why it has also been given outside israel. it is said that g-d offered his torah to other nations and they didnt want it. but there were a few righteous people who would have wanted to accept the torah, but they didn’t have the opportunity. now their >>children<< have the possibility of >>becoming<< jews. but to be honest it has a lot to do with the individual character. i am half persian german and when i started to be seriously interested in converting my mother threw me out.


I am sorry to hear it, and I can understand your attitude somewhat better as a result.


after that i was taken in by a rabbi. this rabbi has now been like a father to me for years.


May the Almighty reward him!


in the synagogue people often made the mistake of wanting to ask me to read the torah, because they had quite forgotten that i was not yet a jew.


That says a lot for you and your commitment.


yes, it is possible to become a jew. judaism does not try to convert people but if someone honestly wants to become a part of israel he is warmly welcomed. every working day pious jews pray for the souls of the righteous in the eighteen prayer. and here the >>true proselytes<< are explicitly mentioned.


Although you started by saying that you wanted to make just ‘a quick point’, you have actually given quite a comprehensive account. But as I told you before, I would rather not discuss this issue with you. I accept that you want to become a Jew. Also, I asked you just one question, which I am sorry to say you have not answered anywhere in your whole argument - namely, which of the two tribes, as a Jew, or which of the ten tribes, as an Israelite, do you belong to?


i dont know how your christian point of view has a problem with this but even if its unusual it is certainly possible to become a jew.


I cannot speak for other Christians here, and would not wish to: I can only give my own opinion. And my point of view, based on the Bible, is this - if the Messiah had already come and had restored the people of Israel to its own land, I would find it entirely self-explanatory that you should want to be joined to the people of Israel. Just this, indeed, has been foretold by the prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah:

A Redeemer will come to Zion and My Spirit is upon you.

Isa 59,20 "A Redeemer will come to Zion, And to those who turn from transgression in Jacob," declares the LORD. 59,21 "As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit which is upon you, and My words which I have put in your mouth shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your offspring, nor from the mouth of your offspring’s offspring," says the LORD, "from now and forever." Isa 59,20-21;

He who scattered Israel will gather him, and will keep him as a shepherd keeps his flock.

Jer 31,9 With weeping they shall come, and with consolations I will lead them back, I will make them walk by brooks of water, in a straight path in which they shall not stumble; for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my first-born. 31,10 "Hear the word of the LORD, O nations, and declare it in the coastlands afar off; say, ‘He who scattered Israel will gather him, and will keep him as a shepherd keeps his flock.’ 31,11 For the LORD has ransomed Jacob, and has redeemed him from hands too strong for him. Jer 31, 9-11;


Ezekiel too speaks of this:

And I will take the heart of stone out of their flesh and give them a heart of flesh.

Ezk 11,16 "Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, "Though I had removed them far away among the nations and though I had scattered them among the countries, yet I was a sanctuary for them a little while in the countries where they had gone."‘ 11,17 "Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, "I will gather you from the peoples and assemble you out of the countries among which you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel."‘ 11,18 "When they come there, they will remove all its detestable things and all its abominations from it.

11,19 "And I will give them one heart, and put a new spirit within them. And I will take the heart of stone out of their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, 11,20 that they may walk in My statutes and keep My ordinances and do them. Then they will be My people, and I shall be their God. 11,21 "But as for those whose hearts go after their detestable things and abominations, I will bring their conduct down on their heads," declares the Lord GOD.. Eze 11,16-21;


And then Isaiah also says:

And they will bring your sons in their bosom, And your daughters will be carried on their shoulders.

Isa 49,22 Thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I will lift up My hand to the nations And set up My standard to the peoples; And they will bring your sons in their bosom, And your daughters will be carried on their shoulders. Isa 49,22;


At this time, then, many nations will turn to Israel because the Lord, the Almighty, will be with his people Israel.

I bring you out from the peoples and gather you from the lands where you are scattered;

Ezk 20,40 "For on My holy mountain, on the high mountain of Israel," declares the Lord GOD, "there the whole house of Israel, all of them, will serve Me in the land; there I will accept them and there I will seek your contributions and the choicest of your gifts, with all your holy things. 20,41 "As a soothing aroma I will accept you when I bring you out from the peoples and gather you from the lands where you are scattered; and I will prove Myself holy among you in the sight of the nations.

20,42 "And you will know that I am the LORD, when I bring you into the land of Israel, into the land which I swore to give to your forefathers. 20,43 "There you will remember your ways and all your deeds with which you have defiled yourselves; and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight for all the evil things that you have done. 20,44 "Then you will know that I am the LORD when I have dealt with you for My name’s sake, not according to your evil ways or according to your corrupt deeds, O house of Israel," declares the Lord GOD.’" Eze 20,40-44;


But in the situation as we have it at the present day, Israel is still caught up in “evil ways and corrupt deeds”, as Ezekiel puts it in the above passage. They do not want to be saved by the Lord their God. They want to save themselves, and although the Almighty has promised them through the mouth of the prophet Hosea that he will not deliver them by sword and battle, they have returned prematurely to their own land - led not by God but by their own will - and are waging war to possess this land and to hold onto it.

But I will not deliver them by bow, sword, battle.

Hos 1,7 "But I will have compassion on the house of Judah and deliver them by the LORD their God, and will not deliver them by bow, sword, battle, horses or horsemen." Hos 1, 7;1,7


i even know two rabbis who were once non-jews. i feel greatly honored by the respect they show me and i would also like to mention favorably your commitment to your faith. i understand that you likewise think your faith is the only true one. and it is doubtless incomprehensible to you that people like me have deliberately and after long discussions with christians decided to be jews.


No, no. It depends of course what Christians you have been talking to. When talking to some so-called Christians one might very well hit upon the idea that it could be better to convert to Judaism.


i dont have any expectation of your understanding me either. only that you should see me as a future member of israel (in just a few months).


Indeed I do! Indeed I do. I would venture to hope that you will never have cause to regret your decision.


only racists think being a jew has something to do with your blood.


Absolutely not! At least not from my point of view. It has nothing to do with blood, Mr anonymous, but rather with the prophecies of the Old Testament, which repeatedly invoke - let me tell you - the twelve tribes of Israel.


i think the expression antisemitism is a correct one in that it is a movement that hates jews because of their imaginary race. genetic tests have long since demonstrated e.g. that jews from germany have more in common with (christian) germans than with jews of other countries. we must stop thinking in racial terms!


Well, of course! I only wonder why you keep coming back to this theme? The more so as you must now finally have come to realize that you have got into a discussion with the wrong person. On this issue I take just the same view as you do, and as is well known, it is very hard to carry on a useful discussion when two people are of the same opinion.


if as you think nobody could become a jew, there would hardly be any jews left.


That is a massive underestimate of the birth rate of Jews in Israel and throughout the world, I think!


or do you think that for instance an ethiopian jew would have not a single convert or non-jew in his family going all the way back to avraham?


I am not in a position to judge. Are you??


so why are there black jews, japanese jews, white jews and so on and so on? we dont have to talk about antisemitism but i just had to tell you that it cannot be denied that the catholic and protestant churches hated jews, expelled them and murdered them.


The main thing here is that you put that in the past tense!


it must surely be clear that without the church antisemitism would never have arisen in this form.


My dear Mr anonymous, although I am far from wanting to defend the official churches - least of all the Catholic church - it sounds all the same as if you missed out on history when you were in school. Antisemitism, as you call it, was to be found among the Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians and Greeks and right through to the Romans, before the Christian church was even thought of.


you distance yourself from the churches and describe yourself as free and evangelical (i hope i have got this right)


Exactly - Evangelical and free church (a church independent [free] of the official churches, one that takes the Gospel of Jesus Christ as the basis of its faith).


now i have a very dear friend in the free church who is very intelligent and i often conduct amicable arguments with him about the true faith. all honor to your faith (at any rate you dont pray to saints) but your movement is very young.


Well, yes - two or three hundred years old, or thereabouts!


until very recent times if you were a christian you were always a member of a church.


Perhaps this was the case in the Catholic circles you moved in. But plainly you have not looked into Christianity further, or you would have been bound to come across denominations that are independent of the churches.


i can very well imagine how much your faith gives you. you see, it is just the same for me. i love g-d, his torah and his people to whom i will also belong soon. (between ourselves, i have been asked by rabbis if i might not also like to become a rabbi!) i wouldnt actually want to get into an acrimonious dispute with you.


It shouldn’t be an acrimonious dispute, that would be a waste of time. It should be a discussion in which each person gives open expression to his opinion, and where he may succeed in suggesting to the other the odd thought that is worth considering seriously.


i believe now that g-d will never change his law.


There I agree with you.


any messiah who wants to change even one jot of the torah is a false pro


I presume you are alluding to Jesus here. But Jesus himself said that he did not come to abolish the Law of Moses, but to fulfill it.

Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Mt Mt 5,17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 5,18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 5,19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

5,20 "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Mt 5,17-20;


as far as i know (please correct me if i am wrong) jesus forbids divorce and expressly mentions that moses only allowed it to make things easier for the people.


Not to make things easier for them, but because Moses knew their hearts of stone, and knew likewise that they would not be able to observe a prohibition of divorce, and so would keep committing adultery and so make themselves guilty of crimes punishable by death.

Because of your hardness of heart Moses wrote you this commandment. Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery.

Mk 10,2 Some Pharisees came up to Jesus, testing Him, and began to question Him whether it was lawful for a man to divorce a wife. 10,3 And He answered and said to them, "What did Moses command you?" 10,4 They said, "Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away."

10,5 But Jesus said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment. 10,6 "But from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female. 10,7 "For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, 10,8 and the two shall become one flesh; so they are no longer two, but one flesh.

10,9 "What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." 10,10 In the house the disciples began questioning Him about this again. 10,11 And He said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; 10,12 and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."


Because this is the law in your tora, which you certainly know:

The adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Lev 20,10 ‘If there is a man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, one who commits adultery with his friend’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. Lev 20,10;


but i believe that the torah comes from god word from word. moses opinion is irrelevant.


Completely right. So just read that text from the Torah of your God which Jesus quotes in the above passage:

They shall become one flesh.

Gen (the book “On the beginning”) 2,24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. Gen 2,24;


So would you voluntarily separate yourself from a part of your flesh - from your arm or your leg, say - and so be prepared to break the commandment of God?


also the dietary laws have been abolished and so has (i think by paul) circumcision!!!
circumcision!!!!!!!!!!


Yes, circumcision. Because it is just an outward sign. Just look at how many circumcised Jews in Israel have been condemned for their criminal activities - from the former State President E. Weitzmann to the former Prime Minister B. Nethanjahu and right through to the member of parliament and leader of the religious Shas party, Ariel Deri, all of whom were condemned for corruption and taking bribes, and forced to resign.

The man who loves God must be circumcised in his heart and not in his male member!! He must have a heart of flesh, a feeling, compassionate heart, one that is willing to make sacrifices. For politicians in Israel today, you might suppose none of these qualities have ever been heard of. Yitzhak Shamir, Prime Minister of Israel from 1983 to 1984 and again from 1986 to 1992, made things extremely plain in an interview with Newsweek on 11 April 1988: “And looking down from the height of this mountain, and from the point of view of our thousands of years of history, we say to you: Compared with us, you are like grasshoppers.”

But then the leader of Judaism worldwide, the President of the World Jewish Congress, Edgar M. Bronfman, said to the former German Foreign Minister Lothar de Maiziere at his inaugural visit in New York in September 1990: “The Germans will meet a terrible fate if future generations should terminate their payments to Israel and the World Jewry: then the German people will vanish from the earth.”

And the religious leaders in Israel, who might have been expected to distance themselves in the name of their God from this megalomania and from the hate-laden tirades of their politicians, are even worse rabble-rousers. Rabbi Yaacov Perrin for instance said at the burial of the mass murderer Baruch Goldstein, according to a report of 28 February 1994 in the London Times, that “A million Arabs are not worth the dirt under a Jew’s fingernail.”[1]

And Rabbi Emmanuel Rabinovich announced to the world on 12 January 1952: “Our final goal is the unleashing of the Third World War. This war will bring to an end our struggle with the goyim for all time. After that our race will rule the world uncontested.”

I think we have heard something like that somewhere before?


i have studied the new testament (which doesnt mean that i know it all or have the knowledge of a theologian) and i know about the >>fulfillment of the prophecies<< like for instance in isaiah 54 (im not sure about the chapter). but it is very easy to >>make<< prophecies come fulfilled when they have after all been very well known for generations, like the book of the prophet isaiah. it has also struck me the way in which jesus becomes more and more divinized from the oldest gospel (mark) through to the most recent (john).


There you are wrong! He is not divinized, rather he is shown to be the Son of God. In him God has made himself known to humanity. Under the Old Covenant every individual who sees God must die. In Jesus Christ the Father has sent his Son, and whoever believes this is saved. According to the New Testament this is the one condition of a person’s being righteous in the sight of God: belief in his Son Jesus Christ, and his redeeming sacrifice for our sins on the cross.

Not circumcision, not sacrifice (anyway there is no Temple and so there can be no sacrifice that would be pleasing to God), not a person’s own righteousness (no person in the world could be so righteous as to fulfill all the laws of Moses for the whole of his life) - the only thing that counts is righteousness that comes from grace and God’s mercy on us sinners.


i think its mark 10 where he says: why do you call me good? no one is good except the lord<< but then we suddenly find him saying in the gospel of john >>i and the lord are one<<. startling, dont you think?


What do you mean, startling? Do I get the sense that you have just “dipped into” the New Testament? Jesus Christ is the Son of our Father in heaven, your G-d. All power comes from God and all honor is due to the Almighty. In his Son Jesus Christ, it has been God’s pleasure to hand over his power to the Son. Jesus Christ, Our Lord and your Messiah will come to take up the rulership of the world. Then the people of Israel will lament for him whom they have pierced. But the Almighty will pour out his Spirit on Israel, and Israel will become chief of the nations on earth.


in the talmud there are endless parallels to the so-called new testament. that thing about wine and wineskins and do not do unto others what you do not want done to you were not invented by jesus but apparently learned from hillel the elder. i think jesus the jew would be TURNING IN HIS GRAVE if he knew what the world has made out of him.


It seems you have not read the New Testament at all, otherwise you would know that according to the Gospels Jesus is no longer in the grave, because he is risen and has ascended to the Father in heaven, from whence he will return once more.

But I do agree with you that the world is indeed very little concerned with Jesus Christ. On the other hand you seem to have the same situation in Israel, with your Mosaic faith. The many atheists among the Jews who have immigrated from Russia, and also the many skeptical young people who spend all their time in discos, think religious belief is just a bore and not a bit cool.


i am glad that i will soon be a jew. i hope i have managed to write you a few satisfying answers.



Well...

You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Gal Gal 5,1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. 5,2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 5,3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 5,4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Gal 5, 1- 4;

You travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him a son of hell.

Mt 23,15 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves. Mt 23,15;

No one comes to the Father but through Me.

Jn 14,6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. 14,7 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Jn 14, 6- 7;






[1]In 1994 the Jewish doctor Baruch Goldstein forced his way into a mosque in Hebron and there shot more than 60 praying Palestinians with a machine pistol. Today a polished memorial plaque can be seen on the spot, carrying the following inscription:

"Here lies the saintly doctor Baruch Kappel Goldstein. Without flaw and with a pure heart, he sacrificed himself for his people, the Tora and the land of Israel. May God bless this righteous man, avenge his blood and give his soul eternal rest."