Immanuel.at Forum for Discussion Discourse 146: Wie funktioniert CO² als Treibhausgas?

(Anthropogenic climate change: how does CO_² work as a greenhouse gas? / Article, Wolf von Fabeck 05-24-2004)

Date: 05.24.2004

Today we deal with the assertion made by a reader in a letter that CO_² is in no way capable of retaining heat radiation from the earth. He gives several reasons for this, which we will treat separately as assertions 1, 2 and 3.

First assertion:

"CO_² has a molecular weight of 44 and is thus considerably heavier than air with 29. Therefore it cannot form a reflection layer at a distance of approx. 6 kilometers from the earth’s surface, as the current distorted ‘scientific’ picture postulates."

Correction:

The current scientific climate model does NOT assume a CO_² reflective layer at 6 kilometers altitude, but rather an atmosphere into which CO_² is uniformly mixed.

CO_² has a higher molecular weight than air, nevertheless it mixes very thoroughly with air due to the air’s being constantly in movement. (A plausibility analysis easily confirms this: if CO_² did not mix with the air, it would have to collect as a heavier gas in all valleys and lowlands, where it would suffocate human and animal life).

Even in finely distributed form CO_² can have an effect, similarly to fine dust, which makes the air turbid – with the difference, however, that CO_², unlike dust, is transparent to visible light and therefore cannot be perceived by the eye.

Second assertion:

"“The molecular absorption lines of CO_² correspond to the temperatures +759° C, +369° C and -80° C. The thermal radiation of our earth can thus neither be absorbed nor reflected. Any CO_² greenhouse effect is therefore ruled out.”

Correction:

Let us state first of all that there was already CO_² in the atmosphere prior to human industrial activity, and accordingly there was a natural greenhouse effect. Other substances, such as water vapor, tropospheric ozone, nitrous oxide and methane are also involved. Without this natural greenhouse effect, the earth’s surface would be uncomfortably cold, averaging about -18° C. Due to industrial emissions of CO_² levels continued to increase and so did temperatures. (Also other substances emitted by human activities, e.g. methane as part of the earth’s gas, influence the temperature). This then results in the additional – and undesirable – anthropogenic greenhouse effect.

But now to consider in detail the assertion that the CO_² absorption lines could not retain the heat radiated from the earth:
Thermal radiation, like light radiation, belongs to the electromagnetic spectrum. In the range of visible light radiation, the colors of the rainbow are known, going from short-wave violet via blue, green, yellow up to long-wave red. Radiation with even longer wavelengths is called “infrared”. Here visible light passes into the range of thermal radiation. With even longer wavelengths, one finally enters the range of long-wave infrared. Each of these radiations is characterized by its WAVE LENGTH.

– Gases have the property that they swallow up and absorb electromagnetic waves of very specific wavelengths. Each gas absorbs different wavelengths or wavelength ranges that are characteristic of that gas. If we want to designate the light or heat radiation that is absorbed, we refer to it as the wavelength or wavelength range affected. These are independent of the temperature of the gas. CO_² absorbs thermal radiation in three wavelength ranges. The formulation used by the letter writer when stating that the absorption lines of CO_² correspond to the temperatures +759° C, +369 °C and -80° C is unusual, and can be understood only if one refers it to the radiation maximum of three black bodies each having the temperatures indicated. In the context of the problem which we are investigating here, it is not helpful and causes the physics layperson to draw faulty conclusions.

– The absorbed radiation is indeed thermal radiation, but it has no temperature. Also neither the temperature of the CO_² nor the temperature of the earth’s surface affects which wavelengths or wavelength ranges are absorbed by the CO_².

– Only atoms have narrowly limited absorption lines. They absorb radiation of only one or even several narrowly limited wavelengths. CO_², however, is present in molecular form and therefore has no absorption lines, but rather somewhat broader absorption bands. The third absorption band of CO_² in question is relatively broad. It extends from 13 to 17 micrometers.

– The earth absorbs energy from the sun mainly in the visible light range and returns energy to space in the form of longer wave thermal radiation. In doing so, it behaves differently from a gas. It does not radiate heat of a single wavelength or a few wavelengths, but rather a whole continuum of heat radiation of ALL wavelengths. If the output of the radiation is plotted as a function of the corresponding wavelength, a very broad “bell curve” is obtained with a radiation maximum at 10 micrometers.

– The lower absorption band of the CO_² can, as has been said, absorb heat radiation of wavelengths from 13 to 17 micrometers. This absorption band of CO_² is within the wavelength range in which the earth radiates heat, not even very far from the maximum of the broad bell curve.

– CO_² can therefore absorb or reduce a part of the heat radiation of the earth. If a part of the broadband radiation spectrum of the earth is retained by the finely distributed CO_² in the atmosphere, of course less energy is radiated overall and it therefore remains warmer near the earth’s surface.

Third assertion:

“The thermal images from space, and cool nights with clear starry skies, prove this in a quite practical way.” (i.e. prove that there is no greenhouse effect).

Correction:

The observation that it still gets cool on clear nights shows that energy is still being radiated – fortunately! – but without the anthropogenic greenhouse effect it would get just a little bit cooler. Unfortunately, the retreat of glaciers worldwide demonstrates that it is getting warmer overall..

Wolf von Fabeck
24.05.2004

(SONNENENERGIE FöRDERVEREIN Deutschland EV \ SFV) ) [GERMAN ASSOCIATION FOR THE PROMOTION OF SOLAR ENERGY]

As a German solar activist and honorary chairman of the Solarenergie-Förderverein Deutschland e.V. [German Association for the Promotion of Solar Energy], Wolf von Fabeck is a well known figure, especially in Germany. Since he has been studying the subject for decades, I assume that he not only has the appropriate expertise, but is also scientifically correct and sincere in his claims.

In his above statement on a reader’s letter addressed to him, he answers the question"“How does CO_²function as a greenhouse gas?" in a manner that is quite comprehensible even to a layperson, in my view. As a non-expert in this field, I can understand his argumentation and see no reason to doubt his statements.

What I have already repeatedly criticized, however, is not the technical statements of the theory about anthropogenicCO_²as a possible cause for climate change, but the one-sidedness of the discussion of this question, which is certainly eminently important for our time. To clarify what I mean, I would like to quote the last statement in Fabeck – s answer to the question above. He writes there:

"The observation that it still gets cool on clear nights shows that energy is still being radiated – fortunately! – but without the anthropogenic greenhouse effect it would get just a little bit cooler. Unfortunately, the retreat of glaciers worldwide demonstrates that it is getting warmer overall."”

The last sentence is correct in itself, but in my opinion unsuitable as evidence for anthropogenic climate change. On the one hand, it is at least questionable whether the influence of the greenhouse effect is so strong that it can be responsible for the "retreat of glaciers worldwide". And on the other, there are of course other possible causes which can lead to a glacier meltdown.

For instance it could be more powerful thermal radiation from the sun, as has already been shown several times in the history of the earth (e.g. the Medieval Warm Period). This possibility is quite realistic, but it has never really been investigated as a cause for the "retreat of the glaciers worldwide" and is almost unknown to the general public. People have been so fixated on the “greenhouse effect from anthropogenic CO_²" that they hardly even consider anything else as the main cause.

Heliogenic climate change from a scientific point of view.

And yet there are good reasons to suppose that climate change is heliogenic (caused by the sun). From a scientific point of view, there is the development of the solar constant. The solar constant "E0" ( or better: "solar input" / FH) is the extraterrestrial (satellite) irradiance or intensity, averaged over many years, which impacts on the earth from the sun at a mean earth-sun distance, without the influence of the atmosphere, perpendicular to the direction of the radiation.

(Texts in a black frame are quotations from visitors to this site or from other authors.)

Since this value – 1367W/m² measured in the year 2000 (see statistics above, right margin) – is measured by satellites outside the earth’s atmosphere, all atmospheric influences, such as the anthropogenic greenhouse effect caused by CO_², can be excluded. And as the statistics above from the Central Institute for Meteorology and Geodynamics in Vienna show, this value has increased strongly in recent decades, up to 2000 – and has surprisingly remained the same since then at 1367W/m² (or are there certain reasons why it is no longer being published?).

Interestingly, the extensive commentary of a British visitor of Immanuel.at, published in the second part of this Discourse and referring to information from the University of East Anglia, illuminates the facts from the opposite side. Here we find it stated, among other things: "From about 2000 on, the earth seemed to have stopped heating up". This would strengthen the assumption that the intensity of solar radiation has indeed not increased since the year 2000 (1367W/m²).

(Texts in a black frame are quotations from visitors to this site or from other authors.)

Global Warming – the Covert Agenda. / Dr. John Waterfield, Eaterfield, Glastonbury, GB

Leaked e-mails from the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia, dating from 1996 to 2009, indicated that even the advocates of global warming were uncertain of their case. In confidential exchanges amongst themselves, scientists expressed consternation that the facts had ceased to support their argument. From about 2000 on, the earth seemed to have stopped heating up. They decided to christen this phenomenon ‘the pause’, assuming it would be temporary. They also decided to abandon the term ‘global warming’ and talk about ‘climate change’ instead. This embarrassing story went down in history as ‘Climategate’.

Global Warming – the Covert Agenda. – Dr. John Waterfield, Eaterfield, Glastonbury, GB

And this would be in itself good news, if it would not prove in the reverse conclusion at the same time that the earth warmed up thus nevertheless to the year 2000 by the intensity of the solar irradiation and not by greenhouse gases such as CO_².

It could also be that the meteorologists have recognized that the global warming is due to the stronger solar radiation. But being powerless to do anything about it – unlike the greenhouse effect – they have seen fit to stop publishing records from 2000 onwards, and continue to let the world believe that it isCO_²that is heating the planet.

Here, a disclosure of the measured values of the solar constant since the year 2000 would provide clarity.

Heliogenic climate change from a biblical point of view.

But that is just the scientific side of it. Over and above that there is – at least for a biblical Christian – a much more important argument from the Bible. For centuries, Bible interpreters have overlooked a certain biblical passage – on the one hand because this text was overshadowed by the accompanying statements, and on the other because at that time people could not yet do much with it.

We are talking about the text in Rev 7:13-17. The apostle John, in his vision of the Last Days, was transported to heaven, to the throne room of God, and there he saw a great multitude from all the peoples of the earth. They were all standing before the throne, all wearing white robes. And then the following dialogue developed between John and one of the elders standing there::

Rev 7,9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 7,10 And they cried out in a loud voice: "Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb." 7,11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 7,12 saying: "Amen! Praise and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God for ever and ever. Amen!" .

7,13 Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robes – who are they, and where did they come from?" 7,14 I answered, "Sir, you know." And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 7,15 Therefore, "they are before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence. Rev 7,9-15;

Since the “great tribulation” is mentioned here, of course that is what all eyes are immediately focused on, and little attention is paid to the crowd in the white robes. In fact these are the Christian believers from all over the world who will be raptured at the Second Coming of the Lord. And since it says here that they “come out of the great tribulation”, this is striking proof that the Rapture does not take place before the Great Tribulation – as is taught by many Christian denominations – but rather during the Great Tribulation. But that is just by the way.

What is important for us here is the statement in the following verse, Rev 7,16:

Rev 7,16 ‘Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst. The sun will not beat down on them’ nor any scorching heat. 7,17 For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; ‘he will lead them to springs of living water.’ ‘And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.’ Rev 7,16-17;

So these are the biblical Christian from the Great Tribulation, who at the Second Coming of the Lord, together with their raised dead brothers and sisters in faith, were caught up and are now in the throne room of God, in heaven. And of them the elder says, “Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst.” This means, conversely, that before the Rapture, during the Great Tribulation – a period of time in the Last Days that is still ahead of us! – they had no or little food (hunger) and no or little water (thirst).

The fact that both hunger and thirst are mentioned here leads to the inescapable conclusion that this is a worldwide climatic disaster – the Raptured come from all over the world (Rev 7:9: “from every nation, tribe, people and language”) and before the Rapture they have all endured starvation and thirst in their homelands – with parched fields, melted glaciers and dried up rivers.

And then, in the second part of verse 7:16, the elder makes the following announcement to John, which is highly interesting from our point of view:

And this is now confirmation that in the Great Tribulation, the time of suffering for Christian believers, the blazing heat of the sun fell on people before their Rapture. Together with the statement given in the first half of verse Rev 7,16, where the evidence of a food and water shortage points to a great worldwide drought that has already been going on for some time, this is proof of just such a heliogenic climatic catastrophe on earth.

And even if all these statements seem to be quite realistic for us today, we must not forget that we only have this clear view of things since we have been in a position to observe such a climate change. But be that as it may, these statements from Rev 7,13-16 confirm a heliogenic climatic catastrophe in the time of the Great Tribulation, immediately before the Rapture at the Second Coming of the Lord.

This biblical argument will probably be rejected by secular scientists and meteorologists, but the fact that the solar constant is measured by satellite, outside the earth’s atmosphere, so that this value cannot contain a “climate drive resulting from anthropogenic greenhouse gases”, should by now have come to the attention even of non-meteorologists.

The possible consequences.

If the above suspicion proves to be correct and climate change is not due to anthropogenic greenhouse gases, but rather to an increasing solar drive that has already been going on for decades, giving rise to a heliogenic climate change, we will have missed decades when we could have done something to prevent this catastrophe in time.

When the last coal-fired power plant has been closed, the last internal combustion engine scrapped, and the last oil-fired heating system disposed of, and temperatures continue to rise worldwide, then we will know that these trillions that have been spent in all countries of the world on the energy turnaround have just been wasted. For this money, it would have been better to insulate all residential buildings against heat, to obscure the facades of glass palaces with white paint or the like, and at least to move public transportation completely underground.

It would also certainly make sense to bring the technology of seawater desalination plants up to date and to build up a stock of them, because the demand will be enormous. And in this context, it would also be wiser to build water pipelines from the sea coasts to landlocked countries instead of oil pipelines like Nordstream 2, because transport by conventional means – whether road, rail or air – will be impossible due to the high temperatures.

This could at least reduce the shortage of drinking water. Something would also have to be thought of to cover the demand for electricity. Because apart from wind and solar energy, not a single power plant, be it a river, coal, oil, gas, biomass or nuclear power plant, can be operated without water. And just to give a feel of the current demand for water in production, here is a statement from the internet:

According to standard calculation methods, 3840 liters of water are needed for the lithium in a battery with a capacity of 64 kilowatt hours (kWh). According to Fichtner, this corresponds to the water consumed to produce:

However, the fact that this is also the water required for the survival of 100 people for 15 days is not even mentioned in the above figures – which shows how unimaginable it is in our day and age to imagine that people might not have enough water to survive. Because even the drinking water reservoirs of the large cities will then – despite rationing – soon run dry.

So you can see that creative ideas and, above all, a lot of money will then be needed, just to enable the sheer survival of mankind – money which we are now investing in the destruction of internal combustion engines and oil firing systems – perhaps for no good reason at all.

When the last coal-fired power plant has been closed, the last internal combustion engine scrapped, and the last oil-fired heating system disposed of, and temperatures continue to rise worldwide, we will know that it wasn’t anthropogenic climate change after all.

But by then it will be too late.

During my internet research into measurements of the solar constant, I found a whole lot of studies from before 1978 (terrestrial reconstruction), but not a single concrete measurement for the years after 2000 based on satellite readings. Perhaps someone could make the effort nevertheless to publish the satellite-based real measured values of the solar constant for the last 22 years. Then we might know where we stand?

Unfortunately, it is to be feared that one will prevent a publication in this respect, just as one has apparently embarrassingly avoided it for the last 22 years. Imagine if science had to admit that global warming is not caused by anthropogenic, i.e. man-made CO_² at all, but by the ever increasing heliogenic, i.e. "God-made" solar radiation.

And not only that, they would have to confess also that they know this fact already for 45 years, however, falsely the CO_² as cause explained, because the science would have to admit otherwise their absolute helplessness. There would go truly an outcry by mankind. Some would curse God (note the paradox), but many people would recognize that this one and only, living and eternal God actually exists and convert.

The Great Tribulation – classified by events. (LANDSCAPE)

And some people of presumed intelligence, say that the contents of the Bible have nothing to do with people’s daily lives.

The beginning of the birth pangs: The tribulation of those days – Seal #1: The man of lawlessness 6: Second coming of the Lord, rapture
< 1^st seal > (Rev 6:1-2;) White horse: rider has a bow. A crown is given to him, he goes out conquering and to conquer.	< 2^nd seal > (Rev 6:3-4;) Red horse: takes peace from the earth. A great sword is given to him, men slay one another	< 3^rd seal > (Rev 6:5-6;) Black horse: a pair of scales in his hand, wheat, and barley expensive but oil and wine not damaged.	< 4^th seal > (Rev 6:7-8;) Ashen horse: Death, and Hades follow. Authority over 1/4 of the earth, wild beasts, famine, pestilence	< 5^th seal > (Rev 6:9-11;) Underneath of the altar: martyrs call for judgment. They wear a white robe, rest until their brethren are killed too	< 6^th seal > (Rev 6:12-17;) Great earthquake: sun is black, moon is like blood, stars fall, sky is rolled up, mountains, islands moved	a6^th sel	< 7^th> seal > (Rev 8:1-6;) Silence in heaven 1/2 hour Incense on the altar 7 angels with 7 trumpets thunder, sounds, lightning
The day of the LORD: The two witnesses of God prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days clothed in sackcloth (?)
< 1^st trumpet > (Rev 8:7;) Hail, fire, mixed with blood 1/3 of the earth burned up 1/3 of the trees burned up all green grass burned up	< 2^nd trumpet > (Rev 8:8-9;) Mountain burning falls into sea, 1/3 of the sea blood 1/3 of sea-creatures died 1/3 of ships destroyed	< 3^rd trumpet > (Rev 8:10-11;) Torch-star from heaven 1/3 of rivers wormwood 1/3 of springs worm- wood, many men died.	< 4^th trumpet > (Rev 8:12-13;) Sun, moon, stars: 1/3 of them darkened for 1/3 of the day and 1/3 of the night	< 5^th trumpet / 1 woe > (Rev 9:1-12;) Star with the key of the pit: smoke darkens the sun, locusts hurt only the men without the seal for 5 months.	< 6^th trumpet / 2 woe > (Rev 9:13-21;) Angels from Euphrates: fire smoke and brimstone killed 1/3 of mankind, the rest of mankind did not repent.	a6^th trp	< 7^th trumpet / 3 woe > (Rev 11:15-19;) World’s kingdom is God’s. God’s wrath has come. Time for judging the dead. Thunder, sounds, lightning
The day of the wrath of God: The dominion of the demonic Antichrist / Death of the 2 witnesses / The nations tread Jerusalem under foot							<a7^th trp>
< 1^st bowl > (Rev 16:1-2;) Poured out on the earth: a loathsome, malignant sore on people who had the mark of the beast.	< 2^nd bowl > (Rev 16:3;) Poured out into the sea: becomes blood like that of a dead man, every living thing in the sea died.	< 3^rd bowl > (Rev 16:4-7;) Into rivers and springs: the waters became blood. They poured out blood of saints: they now have blood to drink	< 4^th bowl > (Rev 16:8-9;) Poured out upon the sun: men scorched with heath they blasphemed the name of God and did not repent.	< 5^th bowl > (Rev 16:10-11;) On the throne of beast: kingdom became darkened, men have pain blasphemed God and did not repent.	< 6^th bowl > (Rev 16:12;) On the river Euphrates: its water was dried up so the way is prepared for the kings from the east.	a6^th bwl	< 7^th bowl > (Rev 16:17-21;) Lightning, sounds, thunder great earthquake as never before, no islands, no mountains
===========================================================================================================================						==	<a7^th bwl> ===================
		The returned Antichrist: death of the two witnesses
a6^th sel after 6th seal (Rev 7:1-17;) No harm to earth, sea trees, until the 144’000 are sealed. Those out of the Great Tribulation before the throne. The Lamb will guide them to springs of water of live God will wipe every tear from their eyes	a6^th trp after 6th trumpet (Rev 10:1-11; 11:1-14;) A mighty angel in a cloud. At the sound of the 7th trumpet the mystery of God is finished. There will be delay no longer. The two witnesses will be killed by the beast Earthquake in Jerusalem	a7^th trp after 7th trumpet (Rev 12:1-17; 13:1-18; 14:1-20; 15:1-8;) The woman and the dragon, the fall of Satan and his angels. The beast out of the sea overcomes the saints. Antichrist and false prophet: the dominion of the two beasts. The Lamb and the 144’000 standing on Mount Zion. Three angels: gospel, judgment has come, Babylon is fallen. Blessed who die Beginning of the judgment, the Son of Man reaps the earth. Those who had been victorious over the beast and its image sing Moses’ song The 7 angels with the 7 bowls of the wrath of God. No one was able to enter the temple until the 7 plagues were finished.			a6^th bwl after 6th bowl (Rev 16:13-16;) Satan, Antichrist and false prophet send spirits of demons performing signs to the kings of the whole world to gather them together for the war on the great Day of God to the place which is called Armageddon.		a7^th bwl after 7th bowl (Rev 17:1-18; 18:1-24;) The fall of Babylon (Rev 19:1-21; 20:1-15;) Battle Armageddon Antichrist false prophet in lake of fire Judgment, 1^st Resurrection Last fight, Last Judgment (Rev 21:1-27; 22:1-21;) The New Creation

Discourse 146 – Anthropogenic climate change and its antithesis.

(Texts in a black frame are quotations from visitors to this site or from other authors.)

(Anthropogenic climate change: how does CO_² work as a greenhouse gas? / Article, Wolf von Fabeck 05-24-2004)

First assertion:

Correction:

Second assertion:

Correction:

Third assertion:

Correction:

Heliogenic climate change from a scientific point of view.

(Texts in a black frame are quotations from visitors to this site or from other authors.)

ENERGY INPUT FROM THE SUN OVER THE LAST 7 MILLENNIA

The decisive drive in historic times – hitherto

(Texts in a black frame are quotations from visitors to this site or from other authors.)

Global Warming – the Covert Agenda. / Dr. John Waterfield, Eaterfield, Glastonbury, GB

Heliogenic climate change from a biblical point of view.

The possible consequences.

The Great Tribulation – classified by events. (LANDSCAPE)

The antropogenic daydreamers.;

Discourse 146 – Anthropogenic climate change and its antithesis.

(Texts in a black frame are quotations from visitors to this site or from other authors.)

(Anthropogenic climate change: how does CO² work as a greenhouse gas? / Article, Wolf von Fabeck 05-24-2004)

First assertion:

Correction:

Second assertion:

Correction:

Third assertion:

Correction:

Heliogenic climate change from a scientific point of view.

(Texts in a black frame are quotations from visitors to this site or from other authors.)

ENERGY INPUT FROM THE SUN OVER THE LAST 7 MILLENNIA

The decisive drive in historic times – hitherto

(Texts in a black frame are quotations from visitors to this site or from other authors.)

Global Warming – the Covert Agenda. / Dr. John Waterfield, Eaterfield, Glastonbury, GB

Heliogenic climate change from a biblical point of view.

The possible consequences.

The Great Tribulation – classified by events. (LANDSCAPE)

The antropogenic daydreamers.;

(Anthropogenic climate change: how does CO_² work as a greenhouse gas? / Article, Wolf von Fabeck 05-24-2004)